The Merilyn Show
What does it really mean to lead your world in an age of collapse, awakening, and reinvention? Merilyn speaks with entrepreneurs, thinkers, creatives and changemakers who are dismantling the old rules of business, success, power and self.
These aren’t celebrity interviews.
These are legacy conversations.
For those creating what doesn’t yet exist.
Hosted by Merilyn Wilson Beretta, founder of the Tall Poppy Society, Lead Your World and WowArchetypes.
Instagram: @merilyn
Website: merilyn.com
The Merilyn Show
331. From $4K to Spain | with Richelle Gamlam
What happens when you stop forcing a business model that doesn’t fit—and start building one that actually reflects who you are?
In this bold and honest conversation, Richelle Gamlam shares her journey from struggling entrepreneur to founder of Move Abroad Coach, a thriving international coaching business helping people design lives they actually want to live—abroad.
We dive into:
- How she grew from $4K a year to a million by ditching the standard "webinar-to-course" formula
- The moment she realised her worst-case scenario was already happening—so why not bet on something better?
- The personal fears she faced relocating her family to Spain after five years in Tbilisi Georgia
- How she now helps others create personalised relocation plans that address mindset and logistics
- The behind-the-scenes of living internationally in China, Vietnam, Tanzania, and beyond
- Why bootcamps, not blueprints, helped her clients finally move
Richelle’s story is a masterclass in alignment, courage, and creating freedom on your own terms. Whether you’re dreaming of living abroad or ready to rewrite the rules in your business or life—this episode is your permission slip.
Join Richelle's next Escape Plan Bootcamp HERE
Instagram: @MoveAbroadCoach
Follow me on Instagram: @merilyn
Website: merilyn.com
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Well, hello there, welcome to my show. This is where I love to chat with people who are out there leading their own worlds, and today I'm chatting with Rochelle Gamlin.
Speaker 2:And I climbed into bed and I cried for I don't know hours. My heart was broken because I was like this isn't working, like I have to be done. You keep saying that you want to, you want to get out of the kiddie pool and go swim with the big kids. Well, take your hand off the beeping edge of the pool and go swim. I made in that month profit what I made the entire year before. So if you find the right model, it can take off. And my biggest fears was waking up at eight years old and realizing I never actually lived my life for and realizing I never actually lived my life for me. I never actually did anything that I wanted to do. I never moved abroad, I never built a business. I just lived my whole life on autopilot, doing everything that I should do rather than what I wanted.
Speaker 1:Welcome back to the show Rochelle. This is actually the third time we have chatted on my podcast. We originally met online, I think, just as COVID started out, and you had a slightly different business than you have now. So tell us in your words what is it that you actually do?
Speaker 2:I run Move Abroad Coach so I help people create their dream lives overseas and really step into that life of freedom and build a life that's truly aligned to you. So not only do we help with the logistics in terms of the, you know, the visas and how to get settled and find an apartment and downsize, we also work a lot on the mindset, the fears of, like, what if I move abroad and I I hate it? You know, what if it's not the right country for me? What if I blow my life up and then I can't get it back? Um, you know, we help. We help families and couples, people with pets, like really, you know, disentangle themselves from this life that they felt like they should have to a life that they actually want. So there's a lot of yeah, move abroad strategy, but also life and business coaching all combined into one Um, but it's.
Speaker 2:It's been incredible and this is not the business that I first came to Maryland with no, and that was very different.
Speaker 1:When we met. You were in a bit of a quandary because the world was in lockdown and you were teaching people basically to. I think move to China or uh, or at least even moving abroad was difficult back then. So when I started coaching with you, it was right before COVID.
Speaker 2:I remember I did. It was, uh, it was like a yearly, maybe leader year or something. It was a planning. Um, maybe lead your year or something. It was a planning, I guess, like launch that you did, and it was December of 2019. And I was like 2020 is going to be the year that my business helping people move to China takes off. A couple months later, after I joined your program I guess your program was lead your year at that point. So my I joined your year long program and was like yes, all in. I'd never invested in coaching like that before, but I was like Marilyn's going to help me take it to the next level, like let's do this. And then COVID happened very shortly after. So whoops.
Speaker 1:No one was going anywhere, were they? But I must say, rochelle, you always stood out. You stood out as someone. You threw yourself into it and I could see that it was beyond ambition. Ambition feels too cheap to use that. There was something in you that knew you had a dream and you wanted to see it happen. And you were already living that dream and you had the lifestyle. You just wanted to share that lifestyle with people. Fortunately, I saw that and we got to work together a little bit and into sort of in waiting zone until the world opened back up. So we're recording this in Europe time zone, but I know you don't live in the US.
Speaker 1:So tell us about the internationalness, if that's a word of your family and where you're living right now.
Speaker 2:Yes, so I'm originally from Seattle in the US, but I haven't lived in the US since I graduated university when I was 22. So I've been back to visit, but I haven't lived there since. So I originally got started in China. So I lived in China for just over five years, taught English, got my master's there, worked as a college counselor, but then I embarked on being a digital nomad, lived in Vietnam, tanzania, for a bit. I've spent a lot of time in Australia because I met my Australian husband Right at the beginning of 2020, I had moved to Tbilisi, georgia, the country, not the state.
Speaker 2:So if you don't know where that is which I mean, let's be real, I didn't until a few years before I moved here. It is by, like Russia, turkey, armenia, azerbaijan, black Sea kind of area in the Caucasus region, and our plan was to only be here for a couple months. Then COVID happened and we adopted two cats, and then we had a baby, and so now she's almost two, and now we're finally looking at moving somewhere else, and so we will be moving to Spain southern Spain at the beginning of 2026 what's the fascination with living abroad, do you think?
Speaker 2:I've always been interested in other countries and other cultures. I was the weird kid we had the children's encyclopedia and I would flip through before I could even read and look at the pictures of like foods and cultures from around the world and like, try to imagine myself eating them at like four years old. Like that was me always. And I was lucky enough to be born into a family that also loved travel. I think my parents they traveled a lot before we were born but they thought, oh, with little kids, like we can't. You know the typical kind of American mentality of like it's very difficult and expensive to travel. But then we were lucky enough, we were going to Disney World and the flight was overbooked and they were offering an insane amount of miles if you pushed your flight back to the next day. And my parents were like this is almost enough to get us to Europe for free, all four of us. And so they took it and of course I'm crying because I think we're not going to Disney world. We were just the next morning, um, but uh, but yeah.
Speaker 2:So then when I was in fourth grade or year four, um for the Australians when I was in fourth grade, we, um, we went to France and Italy and my parents realized, just for two weeks my parents realized like, wow, this, this doesn't have to be super expensive, like we could do this. So throughout my childhood I had the opportunity to travel. You know, every two years we'd take a trip and go somewhere, um, with a little bit of travel, hacking and stuff like that. So when I, when I would visit these countries, growing up as I got older, gearing towards high school, I would imagine what it would be like to live there. I'd say maybe I imagine myself. When I was in Dubrovnik, I was like, wow, how cool would it be to have an apartment right there. And that was already in my mind as a high schooler.
Speaker 2:So, when I well, I studied abroad in China in university. But when I went to move back at 22, when I went to move abroad, no one was surprised. So yeah, I majored in international relations, like I've always been like that.
Speaker 1:So it was inevitable that you were going to live abroad and have a very global mindset abroad and have a very global mindset, which is unusual, I think. But these days, I think people are really challenging, perhaps living in the US, aren't they?
Speaker 2:Well, yes, especially with you know, I don't know how much you want to get into politics, but especially with how things are going in the US right now, I am definitely seeing an increase in interest. We can just put it that way. But a lot of the people who work with me, they've always wanted to do this. They've wanted to do it for five years, 10 years, 15 years, some people say 20 years, forever, since I was a little kid, and they just haven't allowed themselves to until now.
Speaker 1:You're very different, though, to say, the influencer model or the travel influencer. You started in a very traditional blogging sort of field, which has kind of morphed into influencing now, hasn't it? Can you talk to that? A little bit. Can you talk to that a little bit?
Speaker 2:Yeah, so I started as a travel blogger. Yeah, so I had my blog Adventures Around Asia, which still exists. I don't update it anymore, but it still exists. But the way I got started with that was when I studied abroad in China in university. I started a study abroad blog and my study abroad company they would share people's blogs and things like that who wrote consistently, and I just wanted to share my stories, my experience and what I was learning, because I felt like China was really misunderstood, especially in the US, and there were a lot of stereotypes. So I'm like this is very me. I'm going to go to China, a place that's super, super different from where I'm from, and I want it to be hard and I want to learn about a new culture and ask them questions and share what I learn with people. So I started writing about my experience and I was one of the only people on this program that consistently updated their blog, and so, of course, my study abroad company was constantly sharing my posts on their social media and on their website and stuff like that.
Speaker 2:I went back to university for another year, graduated and then decided to teach English overseas just for a year or two and then I'll come back to the US.
Speaker 2:That was almost 13 years ago. I had a teacher broad blog I call it my crappy teacher broad blog and so I was just sharing my experience teaching abroad, living in like a rural area in China. And then, about halfway through that first year, I learned that travel blogs were a thing. I had stumbled upon the world of travel blogs and I saw them and I was like, well, if other people can do that, like why can't I make my blog look like that? And I had this feeling of like, well, I wouldn't want to do it professionally, but I can at least make mine look nice. And then, of course, as I got into the travel blogging world and I started meeting people, I realized like, hey, why can't I just do that? Why can't I make money with my travel blog? But by the time that dawned on me, I had already invested a lot of money in a master's degree at a British university in China.
Speaker 2:So I had to pay off my student loans and so I did take a job in Beijing for two years, paid off all my student loans, and at that point I was loving travel, blogging, but I had that call to be more of an entrepreneur. I learned that online courses were a thing and I thought, well, what if I could help people move to China via online course? I had so many people reaching out to me, I was drowning in emails and I successfully helped a lot of people land really amazing jobs in China and the industry. This was kind of my mission. The industry bothered me in that a lot of people took these horrible jobs their first year because that's what was available, that's what had better marketing, if that makes sense. So, for example, my first year in China was not great.
Speaker 2:I was alone on this factory line highway where I was the only non-Chinese person for miles, and I signed this contract that said, if I wanted to leave my school early, I could owe them up to 8,000 US dollars, which is my entire salary for the year. And I was stuck there and of course, you know, read your contracts. But I just kind of thought everything was standardized. I thought this program would take care of me. I was like I'm not going to leave early.
Speaker 2:But it was not the experience that was promised at all and I met so many people who had that kind of situation or worse, or they'd sign on for jobs with these big companies that would underpay them and had all these rules, and I'm like there are really good jobs in China, but yet no one knows they exist because they don't have good marketing, they don't know how to find the foreign teachers, and so I was like what if I could provide all of the benefits of going on something like a program without the low salary, without the crappy job, without being in the benefits of going on something like a program without the low salary, without the crappy job, without being in the middle of nowhere.
Speaker 2:What if I could provide the community, the support, the guidance and then connect people with incredible jobs? And then also the cultural side of it as well, like everything that scares people about moving to China. What if I could give them like an intro to Chinese, like survival Chinese? That's like what if I could tell them about Chinese culture before they go? So that's the signature course program that I created, called Teach Abroad Squad, that now no longer exists, and I've created something much better. That's way more aligned, but that's how I got started.
Speaker 1:And I love that, because you're a great example of what you start off with. You're going to evolve, you're going to shape, you're going to change. Yes, one of the things that really connects you know, I think we connect around is the challenging the rules, the challenging of the rules, the path where you have to go to think differently, dismantling the old rules in career and business and life. What changed, basically, since our last chat? What happened with you? Because which is unusual advice Normally people say niche down, just focus on China.
Speaker 1:You've probably gone broadly and yet become more successful. That's just so exciting that you've done that.
Speaker 2:I released the shackles of my niche and I am so much better for it. Yes, you did Like so much better.
Speaker 1:And I can remember having conversations with you and you were just, there was just this. I mean, covid didn't help, it didn't help, but there was this, there was this. We use that as an excuse, but there was a locking in your thinking. No, I have to do it this way and I think a lot of the training that we both had got before that was you niche down and you have a very small thing. What changed, what released, I guess, what mindset, what helped you be brave in that area?
Speaker 2:This is something where that is a silver lining of COVID. Covid was awful but that was a silver lining in that it gave me permission to release that business model that I thought I had to do. And I think this is where it's yeah, doing something different, doing something against the grain. I you know, I built the business that everybody asked me for and it wasn't successful.
Speaker 2:I built the business that I thought I should create based on my audience, based on the amount of emails I was getting. That was just so crazy. I had to hire a virtual assistant just to help me manage my inbox, right, Like? I had so many people reaching out to me asking for help and then, and then there's also that resentment there, right? So many people asking for free help. I finally create something and people don't want to pay me for it and I'm like what.
Speaker 2:And I think, honestly, I'm so glad that that business never took off, because even by the time that I came to you, I had been struggling to sell this course that I created, because that's what it was. It was a course, and then, of course, I had poor boundaries and started adding coaching to it without charging extra.
Speaker 1:That's because that's how you're wired. You needed that.
Speaker 2:Yes, yes, I needed that people piece, and so it took me a while to figure that out. But basically, that first business was the business that I thought I should create, based on logic, based on what everybody was telling me, based on my audience, and I created it and it wasn't successful. So when I finally allowed myself and when COVID came in and just blew the whole thing up and I said, okay, if I'm going to start over, what do I actually want? What do I want my business to look like? What do I want to help people do, and I found myself saying, if you're listening to this and you found yourself saying something similar, pay attention.
Speaker 2:I found myself saying I don't want to only write boring teach abroad blog posts. If you're saying that your business writing about what you teach is boring, then probably you should not be teaching that, because I felt limited. I am more than happy to help people teach abroad because you can make real good money in Asia and Middle East, but typically what I do now is if I'm helping people teach abroad, it's in service of something else. You know. They're like yeah, I'm going to teach abroad and I'm going to use this money to pay off my debt and at the same time, I'm going to be starting my own like freelancing business on the side, and teaching will allow me to do that. It's a stepping stone to something else. So I just felt so limited and so shackled to this niche that I just I want how do I say this? Only working on one country, and not even just one country, but one specific field in one specific country. It was so niche and so repetitive that I felt bored.
Speaker 1:And then also yeah, restrained.
Speaker 2:And then also it was the business model really easily lent into done for you, which is not my style either, into done for you, which is not my style either, and that's not aligned to my like. I need to pay attention to my personality, my business model and me reviewing people's contracts for them is not my zone of genius. I should never be doing that Like that's, that's the last place you want me, so it was things like that, or I would kind of get shoved into like a recruiter role where I'm matching people with jobs.
Speaker 2:And none of that was what I wanted to be doing. I wanted to be teaching, I wanted to be inspiring, and that's where Karen, who you know she works a lot with Wealth Dynamics and I took Wealth Dynamics and got Star. And the second I read that profile, I was like, oh my God, that's what I need to do. I need to be speaking on stage. I need to be the face of a personal brand. I need to be sharing my message with a broader audience. I need to be a little less accessible. Stars can't shine if they're down on the ground. They need to be up in the sky so everyone can see them. I was like, wow, okay, so with that kind of knowledge, in my, in our, in my language.
Speaker 1:It's passion maker, remember, yeah that was also very helpful I remember you saying to me and I've never forgotten it, and I, I I have not fully, fully, no, I haven't. Let's admit it, I have not followed thread, but it's tugging at me now is you said it'd be great, marilyn, if you could use your wow archetypes to help people guide into the business model that's right for them.
Speaker 2:I mean, that sounds like something I'd say yeah, and really into personality typology.
Speaker 1:So it's yeah, and you and I have been into the Enneagram and all of that, and it's so, so, so true, and I think we have come out of that and it's look, it's dismantling and we're seeing it dismantled and it's not working like it used to. But that model that we're all trained in as to you know, the ultimate is you have your freebie and then you have your do-it-yourself course and then but some of us need that contact with people. But some of us need that contact with people.
Speaker 2:We need a different model a different model that works for how we're hardwired and that's not an, instead of, it's a system that's packaged and sold to us that may not work for us. That's what I always tell my current clients too, because a lot of people you know, once they start working with me, they drink the entrepreneurial Kool-Aid and then I kind of how do I say this? Slowly but surely, everybody comes over to work it for themselves. But anyway, that's what I tell people is you have to build a business that's actually aligned to you and your personality, and evergreen funnels to DIY online courses where you have no contact with the people who are going through them. That was never going to be aligned to my personality. That stopped me and I struggled and it wasn't successful. And the current business model that I have now has done much better because I found something where I'm like, ooh, this is where I can shine.
Speaker 1:And also.
Speaker 2:I worked on my money mindset and changed my pricing. So there is that. But it's funny when you do that, people take you so much more seriously and more people are interested now that I'm charging much higher prices than they ever were when I had a $200 online course, so that's been incredible. But, yeah, just finding a strategy that aligns with your personality and I'm sure we'll get into some of the strategies I've been using. But, for example, I run these paid boot camps $37 boot camps and right now we have a goal to get a thousand people into our next bootcamp. I think the highest we've ever had is 600 something.
Speaker 2:But I'm running these like very intensive bootcamps with mindset training each day and like the main training days and things like that. And some of my clients say to me that is my worst nightmare. I loved attending yours, but I would never want to do something like that and I'm like cool, so let's not do that. That's not aligned to you. If you're more introverted, if the idea of standing up in front of a thousand people and talking doesn't energize you, maybe let's find you a model that's better for your personality than that.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, absolutely Talking to you just energizes me so much because you're just a round peg in a round hole now and I remember us talking about you. I don't know. I remember now thinking I want Rochelle working for me and being a coach, but there was part of me that said no, she's going to run her own empire, she's got her own race to run and I'm so race to to run and I'm so excited for you. And where and where this?
Speaker 2:you've only just begun, so you thank you for not hiring me as a coach, because I might have been so you're, I would say, one of you.
Speaker 1:one of your strongest values is freedom, so and same with mine. So, being told that this is the system that you must follow, how did you get to that place where you gave yourself permission to follow another model or adopt another model in your business, and also to expand and broaden your so-called niche?
Speaker 2:This was. It took a while. I want to say it was easy. It was not. I remember, you know, working with you and you had I forget what it was called, but it was. It was part of your program, something that I could download to kind of work through my skills. It was like a whole workbook and I was writing about things that I was interested in. I'm like travel, living abroad. You know the Enneagram like I had this whole.
Speaker 2:It was really hard for me to get clear on what I should do next, because I felt like my first business was kind of handed to me on a silver platter.
Speaker 2:It was obvious if that makes sense, and so eventually I did settle on creating an online course called the freedom life that helps people move overseas, but not just limited to one country and also incorporating some mindset elements. And so I kept trying to follow the model that I saw that everyone and I say that in quotation marks everyone was successful with, which was do a free webinar, pitch your program, pitch your course, maybe run some sales calls, and then you know then that's your course and you run it Right and you just do these webinars and you have to get and this is where your help came in, where you're like Rochelle, your webinars aren't converting because you don't have enough people in the door and actually teaching me the math behind. You know the percentages and things like that. Where it's like okay, 3% of people buy this, is how many you need, because nobody teaches you that. So what ended up happening for me to get to where I am now is it had to get so bad that I almost quit.
Speaker 1:It had to get so bad that it was honestly like this.
Speaker 2:I didn't want to quit, but here's what happened.
Speaker 2:So I was struggling so much and I was also freelancing, you know, partially for you and then later for some other people as well. But of course I had horrible money mindset issues. I wasn't making much money freelancing either. And so then doing these webinars and I every month I would go in being like, okay, I'm going to do this webinar and if I can just get X amount of people to sign up, that'll be an extra $2,000 in our account. Because we were struggling, we were super stressed about money, I was completely burnt out trying to, yeah, square peg, round hole, force it to work.
Speaker 2:And I've realized that's my go-to is that when things get hard, I just push harder and I'm like, oh, if I just work harder, if I like, oh, if I just work harder, if I just try again, it'll work. But then I tell my own clients it's like the equivalent of banging your head against a wall and hoping the wall will just go away At a certain point. You need to take a couple steps back and look around and be like, hmm, is there another path that I can go around this wall, where this wall is not here if it's not working. But that's always been my go-to is just work harder and it'll work out. If you just try again, if you just tweak one little thing, it could work. No, it was 2021. Towards the end of 2021, I did my final free webinar and I knew on that webinar, yeah, we had a bunch of people sign up but almost no one showed up live. And the people who showed up live, they weren't my ideal clients and a lot of them were the same faces who'd come to everything.
Speaker 2:And after I got off that webinar, I was like I'm not going to make any money from this and I climbed into bed and I cried for I don't know hours because my heart was broken, because I was like this isn't working, like I have to be done, I can't do this anymore, like I cannot physically do this anymore, and I was devastated. And every time I ran a launch or did a webinar, my husband would internally like brace himself for the meltdown afterwards with disappointment. He would brace himself to comfort me in my disappointment because he wanted it for me, and he was like it's just devastating to see you put yourself through that. And I, yeah, I just cried and cried and cried because I just felt like I had to. Let's be real, I was never going to give up on my dream, but I had to put it on pause because I couldn't physically do it anymore. I was so stressed about money. I've been trying and I've been trying, and I've been trying and it wasn't working. And so I decided you know what? I need to take a break. I need to stop for just two seconds.
Speaker 2:And then, two weeks later, I saw an ad. It was for this paid launch formula, so it was teaching you how to run a paid bootcamp that then had a signature program on the back of it. And I'd seen them around before. I'd even joined their bootcamps, but they were always in the middle of when I was launching, so I could never go. But this time they were hosting like a weekend masterclass and I was like and you had to apply to be admitted to the masterclass, they wanted people who already had like some sort of established business. And so I was like well, you know what? I'll just go in. This is how you know. I didn't want to quit. I'll just go and I'll just learn, and I'm not going to join their program on the back of it Like there's no way.
Speaker 2:And then I show up to the masterclass. They let me in. I don't know how they let me in, but they let me in. Show up to the masterclass and I'm like, oh, this is my business model, yes. Show up to the masterclass and I'm like, oh, this is my business model, yes. And I immediately knew in my gut that that was the business model that I needed, like intuitively, and sometimes Enneagram 7 head type, I'm out of touch with my gut, but whenever I listen to it it's always right. And so something in my gut was like Rochelle, you can't even afford the payment plan for this, but you have to do it. And so I borrowed the money and I joined that program and I did it. And then that's what I needed. So I just needed to change my whole business model Crazy.
Speaker 1:And it's crazy because like and this really works me up talking about this and it's like okay, I want to help people know about as many different models as they can so that they can choose appropriately, because I was trained the same, you know, it was almost like I had decades in branding and business strategy and all of that. But when you move online and you start being educated, it's almost like there's a culture would you agree? Of like we'll follow this and it'll, it'll work but it doesn't, and so you can't.
Speaker 2:Every guru has their own version of like you throw out your common sense.
Speaker 1:you throw out your own experience and and and ability to trust your gut. We're so not used to it. We're so used to following a step-by-step guide of being told what to do, and I'm loving the fact that people are having these conversations more about having permission to go the way that suits you.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and I see this all the time with my own clients as well, even in like other. You know areas like freelancing and things like that, where people come to me and they're like what skills do I need to go remote? I see this VA course. Or one person who works for me now. She took a course on how to become like a court transcription writer so she could do that virtually and move abroad. She had no interest in that. She never even finished the course and I'm like why, knowing her personality? I'm like why would you ever think that that was the right fit for you? And she's like well, I just thought I typed quickly I could do it.
Speaker 2:And so we see this, especially as entrepreneurs. We see, oh, you've got to have the evergreen funnel or you've got to be on TikTok. I remember when it was Circle and I was just like I'm not going to be on Circle, I don't care Whatever it is. So it's like we see these models and it's like if you're not doing this, you're missing out, it's a missed opportunity. Everybody has to do this and this is what's successful for me. But if you pay attention, there are so many different models and there are so many people saying different things. So it's all about okay, yeah, that model worked for them, what works for you, and so this model worked for me and I've done it a bunch of times now and just I have the numbers actually written on a whiteboard to inspire me.
Speaker 2:So in 2021, okay, in 2021, my business revenue for the entire year was less than $4,000. Okay, that's where we were, that's what we were dealing with. Okay, in 2022, I found this business model. I ran my first paid bootcamp. 43 people signed up and four people joined my 997 signature program. Cool, I made in that month profit what I made the entire year before, and by the end of 2022, I had made over a hundred K. It was 121 K revenue in my business when it was 4K the year before, and then the next year I doubled it. In 2024, it was almost 500 K, and now we're trying to hit a million revenue this year. So if you find the right model, it can take off, but you have to find what actually works for you and for me. Reinventing the wheel each time doesn't work. I do the same boot camp. Of course, I make adjustments. Yeah, you improve it Boot camp works, the format that I've created.
Speaker 2:it works to get people started, and so why would I reinvent the wheel and do a new topic for every single bootcamp and make my life revamping? And reinventing the wheel every time when I found something that actually works.
Speaker 1:So, if I could sum up what we've talked about so far, I think you've really zoned into your value of freedom and teaching freedom and helping people have freedom, but also living free outside of the system yourself. You also locked into a business strategy and a model that worked with your personality. That didn't tie you to this sort of passive income or this quiet income where you weren't having contact with people. You needed that liveliness, you needed that contact and there's a lot of. You know whether you have that model or not. There's a lot of models that but you gave yourself permission. So there's freedom and there's permission. But you also got confidence. So in having those, having those wins on your side definitely brings that confidence.
Speaker 2:But you, you self. Yeah, I was scared going into my first bootcamp. I had a meltdown, I had a meltdown on a group coaching call where I cried in front of everyone about how scared I was. And then the person leading that call, she called me out and she's like you keep saying that you want to get out of the kiddie pool and go swim with the big kids. Well, take your hand off the beeping edge of the pool and go swim. And I cried in front of everyone and I needed to hear it.
Speaker 1:Wow. You said at the beginning that a lot of what you do is mindset training. What would you now have said to Rochelle of, say, a few years ago?
Speaker 2:oh, that's it. Well, if it were me, I would go back in time and and tell myself like because now I have the knowledge of how successful this could be and you've had so many failures, so to speak, where no one would turn up and the wrong people would turn up.
Speaker 1:So it feels absolutely justified that you were clinging onto the edge of the pool.
Speaker 2:Yeah, cause I had taken a loan for $6,000. I didn't have, I couldn't even put the payment plan on my credit card without maxing my credit card out. I was scared that I wouldn't be able to pay it back. And so, actually, what was said to me, aside from take your hand off the edge of the pool, what was said to me was what I needed to hear. So I'll tell you that and then I'll tell you what I might tell myself. But what she said was okay.
Speaker 2:So, yeah, let's say this launch is a complete, total failure and you don't make any money. Are you going to quit then? Because I had said my husband and I have this agreement If I can't make this work, it's January now, if I can't make this work by August, I have to quit and go get a job again. And so she's like okay, so you do this one boot camp. It doesn't work out, you don't make enough money. Will you quit? Go get a job tomorrow? And I said no, no, no. Well, I get till August and I still have like a few more months in the program, like I would just do it again. And she's like okay, and so, absolute worst case scenario, you don't make your money back. Then you go get a job, right. And she said, okay, so you get your job back, you go work in the education industry in Asia again, how long do you think it would take you to pay that $6,000 back? And I'm like I don't know, a couple of months. She's like then why are you so scared? Because your worst case scenario is what's going to happen if you don't try. So you might as well just go all in then. Right, like you might as well take your hand off the edge of the pool, go all in, invest the money in ads. Like go for it. Because that was my fear, was like putting money in ads because ads hadn't worked for me before. She's like you might as well go for it then, because otherwise your worst case scenario is going to happen anyway.
Speaker 2:And it really just shifted my mindset of like I was keeping myself small, I was afraid to invest in coaching, I was afraid to invest in ads, and it was creating this cycle of playing small. I was afraid to charge more money for my programs and my expertise, and so the whole thing was a little cycle where I was like I'm not making enough money to invest in. You know, invest in anything. Therefore, I'm not making money. And I had to trust my gut and invest money that I didn't have in coaching and go all in on not even all in on ads, just spend some money on ads. You know, to actually get to this point I had to. I, like I had to kind of trust in the universe. I had to trust that if I took that step, I wouldn't, I wouldn't fall, and that was in the back of my mind where it's like, well, if I don't go for it, my worst case scenario is happening anyway. So what might as well just go for it.
Speaker 1:So we're what happened. Yes, you ran.
Speaker 2:What happened was yeah, I ran the boot camp I made?
Speaker 1:yeah, I ran a bootcamp, well what?
Speaker 2:happened was yeah, I ran the bootcamp and you have the dollars. Yeah, I ran the bootcamp, I got 40 something people in, which doesn't sound very high. However, when you have a paid launch model, there's a much, usually much higher percentage of people who show up live and who invest in your signature program. So, 40 people four people joined right, so like 10%. You know, I ended up making back my ad spend with ticket sales as well, so I, like I, self liquidated on the ads, which is the goal of the model is to make your ad spend free, so I ended up doing that. A lot of people, I think, might see a launch where you make $4,000 profit as not that great.
Speaker 1:Oh, for your first launch in a new business. That's phenomenal for 10% conversion.
Speaker 2:That was my thought exactly and I think this is important to hear. If anyone's like, oh my God, she only made 4K, that showed me, wow, I could do this right, I only made 4K, the whole previous year revenue. I went back and did the math. I was like in my mind I said the most successful webinar launch that I'd ever had was like $2,000. And I made 4K doing this. That's double. That shows me that this model works for me. Let's go all in and try again.
Speaker 2:And the second one that I did I doubled it. It was like 9K. And then the one after that, my goal, that I did. I doubled it, it was like 9K. And then the one after that. My goal, I think, was 20, but I made 36K profit, like projected profit, from that launch. And I remember running into the living room like halfway through my sales cycle, my open cart, running into the living room and screaming with my husband Chris being like people make this in a year, like I just made like a year salary, like having a party. And of course there are business expenses on top of that and that kind of thing, but just seeing that number come in. You know I I've talked to people who have tried this model, or who are doing these launches, who are expecting more and they see 4k and they're like, oh, that's not that much, but this is you know this is why you don't give up.
Speaker 1:Everyone starts there unless they've got multiple millions of an audience already that they've built.
Speaker 2:And I needed to kind of build a new audience from scratch, because a lot of my old audience were China you know on Instagram that, yeah, they're interested in teaching in China, and then COVID, they weren't even interested anymore.
Speaker 2:So I did like a whole email list purge and like a lot of my social media followers were following me for travel content, not because they wanted to move abroad, and so I needed the ads. I know some people are not that into ads, but I needed them to jumpstart and find my new audience. And when done correctly and this was the issue is, I didn't know my numbers. I didn't know. You know, like I didn't, I couldn't look. I would see the ads and be like, well, ads aren't working for me, people aren't buying.
Speaker 2:But it's like, actually, people were clicking through to my sales page and it was my sales page that was the problem and not the ads, you know, and things like that. Or it wasn't clear that your ad is to a paid thing. And then you get to the paid thing and people are like, oh, I don't want to pay $37 for this and they click off. So I needed to make it clear in the ads it wasn't free, so you've got to look at the actual numbers of your app. A lot of people think that these ads don't actually work for them, when really knowing your numbers is what makes the difference right, because you can see what's not working and you can make adjustments. And so that was like. Another mindset thing that I needed to get over is this fear of investing in ads that was keeping me small, and not everyone needs ads, not everyone wants to do ads, but that did help me. It did help me create an audience that I didn't have before.
Speaker 1:So, rochelle, you're moving to another European country. What was the uh? What was the motive behind that? What was the prompt to make a change in living conditions?
Speaker 2:That's a good question. So we never planned on being in Tbilisi for as long as we have been. Our plan was to stay here for four months. Then COVID happened and now it's been five years and so you know, we actually were looking at potentially moving to Mexico just for the time zone and things like that, because I was doing a lot of evening calls, because I'm quite most of my clients are based in the US and so I'm based quite a bit ahead of them.
Speaker 2:Then, right when we were, we were visiting my family in the US and we're like, let's do a scouting trip to Mexico just to pick, like the destination that we want to move to. A couple of weeks before our scouting trip I find out I'm pregnant and I'm like, oh man, I don't necessarily want to move, while second trimester like the time that we were planning on moving was like right around my due date and I'm like, okay, let's maybe not do that and stay in Georgia where I have support and I have friends who have kids and you know recommendations and things like that. But then it got to the point where our daughter is now a year and a half and you know also the political direction of Georgia. I'm not a huge fan of what's going on politically here as well. You know my Australian husband. He hates the winter and misses the beach, and so we just got talking where he was like look, I'm not loving being here, but I had even though I've been living abroad for 12 and a half years I had fear where I'm like.
Speaker 2:I have friends here, I have a community here, I have a good nanny here. The idea of what if I it's so funny, it's the same stuff I talk about with my clients what if I give all that up and go move to another country and I struggle to make friends? Because there are times that I've struggled to make friends living abroad. I can't find good childcare, it's more expensive, the taxes are crazy, you know, and so there's that fear there and it's really this whole process has given me this renewed sense of like, real compassion for my clients, because a lot of the people that I work with are more established. I don't want to throw my whole life away and you know I, like people, have partners, kids, pets, you know great, fantastic on paper, jobs, own property, you know there's there's so many things, you know keeping them there and then even like, hey, I struggle to make friends and I have friends here and I don't want to give that up, you know. So a lot of what I'm going through is what my clients go through and I'm supposed to be the expert, and so it's really.
Speaker 2:I've been sharing my journey pretty honestly on my own podcast because and people are really loving it that I'm like opening up and being honest about that, because it's like, yeah, just because you help other people do it, doesn't mean that those fears completely go away, even if you've been doing this for 12 years. Just like you could be running a business for 12 years and still get nervous before a launch, or still have a meltdown when it's like, oh my God, I can't pay my business expenses this month. That you're like whatever it is like, things are always going to come up. And so just because someone's been doing this for longer than you doesn't mean they're perfect, doesn't mean they don't struggle, and so I've. I've really been open and honest and sharing those things with my community and and it's it's yeah, it's it's it's helped me be a better coach as well.
Speaker 1:It's so much more than just having the right strategy, isn't it? It's the emotional game, the mental game is such it's everything, it's everything.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and I'm putting pressure on it too, because it's not just me anymore. I have a daughter, and so I'm deciding that the place that I'm moving to is going to be a place that we live for a long time and maybe even buy property. And then I'm putting this extra pressure on myself where, when people ask my daughter where she's from, this is probably going to be the well, it's got to be a whole complicated explanation, but this is going to be the country where she says like, yeah, I grew up in Spain because she, she'll be two when we move there. And if I, if I, spend at least five years like those are some formative years, it's not just, oh, I'll just figure it out.
Speaker 2:And I lived in China for five years and Georgia for five years, but I kind of just fell into it. It wasn't a conscious decision, whereas this is like a real conscious choice. I'm applying for a digital nomad visa, I'm paying to ship my stuff there, I've got two cats, I've got a kid. It's more pressure, and that has really helped me relate to my clients, who do have more pressure on them, because this is the first time in my history of living abroad where I've had to move to another country and had that kind of pressure on me.
Speaker 1:So, rochelle, this is. We could talk forever because I just I just love hearing and a big value of mine is travel, and talking to you just gets me itchy again to do that. But I imagine there are a lot of people who are listening to this, who it's scratching an itch for them, they want to do something different, but I think we've talked enough for people to get that. It's not just knowing what visa form to fill out. There's a lot of an emotional support and just that, the bravery to do that, and, I guess, letting go of especially the American dream that we've been raised on you know Australians have been too that you've got to get a steady job, you've got to get a steady education, you've got to do something with the education, and that's changed a little bit, but it is still in our psyche, isn't it? You are living proof that, that you know you can think again about those things.
Speaker 1:So you've got a boot camp coming up, so this podcast will be fairly eternal, but I think you're going to be having this sort of thing for the next few years, aren't you? So if people want to taste and this was another thing I was going to say to you, michelle is before you were doing the webinar model. It was really just an introduction, whereas now your boot camps are really solid, aren't they? They actually create a customized, personalized plan and make decisions, which has been a bit of an obstacle for people for moving, haven't they? It's not just listening to the webinar.
Speaker 2:No, and that's what was necessary. I think a lot of people come to my bootcamps and they're curious about moving abroad. They want to, but they don't feel like it's possible for them, and so what we do is, over the course of four days, we create your own personalized plan to move abroad, so we figure out what kind of lifestyle is going to be right for you and what country is most aligned to you and what kind of visa would you need. How are you going to make money? Hopefully, if you're listening to this podcast, it's more entrepreneurial route, but how are you going to make money? And then, how does all of that fit together? Because we have to make sure that the country matches the visa and matches the job. We have to make sure that that all works together. And then on the final day, we talk about what you need to actually put this plan into action. And if it's working with us, great, you can join one of our programs. And if not, you can at least leave with your plan on a piece of paper and take it from dream to reality.
Speaker 2:And I also do a lot of mindset training as well. I do like mindset lives every day in the Facebook group to really show people this is possible. And I think a lot of times, especially for Americans, when it comes to the healthcare and the fears of like, oh my God, if I let go of my healthcare, my 401k, like I could be destitute, like I won't have healthcare anymore. So there's a lot of fears around that as well, a lot of limiting beliefs that we bust in our mindset. Trainings as well. But I really needed that time with people, I think, with this new model, to really show people that this is possible and you leave with a tangible plan that you can actually go and implement. And I oftentimes say to people you know, if you could just Google your way abroad, you would have done it already. Like you're smart.
Speaker 2:And that's where the frustration goes from, where it's like I'm smart, I'm capable.
Speaker 1:I should be able to do this. Why can't I do this and chat GDP too? You know, we can figure out anything if we're clever and we get the prompts right, but it's that emotional support and the someone to ask the questions and to customize it to you that is so crucial.
Speaker 2:Don't. Don't trust chat dbt for visa advice. I'm just gonna throw that out there it's real wrong I'm just gonna throw that out there. Yeah, it's using the internet, and then the internet, like websites, aren't always correct either. No, that's right. So yeah, because it's using the internet, and then the internet, like websites, aren't always correct either.
Speaker 2:No, that's right, so it's where it's sourcing from is not always correct. But yeah, no, if you would like to join. I mean, we do have one coming up, but I'm not sure what this episode is going to drop, but we do have one coming up at the end of June. But this is something that I do a few times a year. But if we aren't running a bootcamp per se, you can always reach out to us. We always have something going on. So if you reach out at Move Abroad Coach on Instagram, we'll just let you know hey, this is what's available, this is what's happening. Here's how we can help you, and you can even hop on a call with someone from our team. If you do want some more intensive coaching, you can hop on a call with one of our program specialists on our team and we'll walk you through our options and we'll see what's going to be the right fit for you.
Speaker 1:So I guess the final statement is hook into that love of freedom that you have and follow it. Let go of the edge of the pool.
Speaker 2:I love that. Let go of the edge of the pool. You don't have to live life the way that you've been told ever since you were a kid. We only get one life why not? One of my biggest fears was waking up at 80 years old and realizing I never actually lived my life for me. I never actually did anything that I wanted to do. I never moved abroad, I never built a business. I just lived my whole life on autopilot, doing everything that I should do rather than what I wanted. But we only get one chance at this Be the main character of your own life. It's kind of a cliche, but be the main character of your own life and actually go after what you want, because worst case scenario is what you're living right now. You could just go back to that, so why not go after what you actually want?
Speaker 1:What a great place to end, Rochelle. Thank you so much.
Speaker 2:Thank you so much for having me. It's so great to chat with you after a couple of years.
Speaker 1:Yeah, we'll have to check in in a few more years to see where you've gone since then. So is there anything else you'd like to share?
Speaker 2:You know, if you're listening to this and you're like, oh, I would love to move abroad, but it's not possible for me, I don't. You know other people can do it, but I can't because of insert reason here, Just know that you can and I have never not once talked to someone and said, oh, I can't help you, Sorry, Like I have never even medical issues, no matter what it is like we can work through it. So not once have I ever talked to someone and been like, oh sorry, I don't know how we're going to make this work, I can't help you. So if this is something that you actually want move abroad, build a business, whatever it is like we can, it is, we can help you. Marilyn can help you with the business as well. We can help you make this happen. So don't count yourself out and make excuses for why you can't have what you want before you even get started. That's my advice, my two cents.
Speaker 1:Brilliant two cents, yeah. So if that got you interested and you would like to move abroad and come up with a plan for that, see if it's really for you. I highly recommend to join one of Rochelle's boot camps. I'll put the links in the notes attached to this episode, so definitely dive in on that. There'll be one coming up real soon. Thanks for listening. See you next time.